You can never go wrong with a trip to Italy. With rich culture and history dating back centuries—millennia, even—the country is rife with so much to see, do and of course, eat. Trust me on this; I spent a week and a half in Rome with my family and we barely covered any ground. Same when I was in Milan.

While a sun-drenched summer getaway to the boot of Europe is always tantalizing (White Lotus style, of course), the crowds…not so much. Here’s the actual best time to travel to Italy, per a travel expert. Ben Julius is the founder of Tourist Italy, a travel agency specializing in custom tours, hotels and travel packages. The agency is part of the larger Tourist Journey group, which has served over 500,000 travelers in the last 15 years.